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Korean Drama Group 한국 무 리
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Post: #1 (ID: 33705) Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:20 am Karma this post: (+3 -1) Post subject: An Opinion |
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In my opinion this TV series of Seoul 1945 is obviously a biased work to support communism rather than democracy. When I began watching the show, it appeared to me that the point of view of the film is neutral. I was fooled as episodes later revealed it to be contrary. Yes, they put in the idea of romance between four individuals as a focal point, but the underlining meaning is clear. To me, these characters are just pawns to twist the idea that communism is the patriotic, proper way that will lead to the betterment of human kind. It is far from the truth of it. As long as any government is ruled by humans, human greed and human obsessive desires will be entangled in it. It will always be flawed.
The character of Kehee is demeaning to the female race itself. To me, she is a reckless character who made poor decisions and blames Suk-kyong for them and so did the rest of her family. In truth she did not take responsibility for her own decisions and actions as a human being. There are many examples from the series that I can pull from. One example is when she was | Spoiler (Click here to reveal) : |
| engaged to the character of Oon-hyuk, a communist, and yet decided to take close action with Dong-woo who she knows has a fervent history with Suk-kyong | . A proper gentlewomen will not act in such a way, especially when you do not intend to coax the man to love you. As a person who has experienced “love”, of course you will not take certain actions to provoke such a feeling from someone who you do not love yourself. Then, without attempting to know about the development of Suk-kyong’s feeling for | Spoiler (Click here to reveal) : |
| Dong-woo, Kehee turns the fault of Dong-woo’s change of heart towards Suk-kyong; criticizing Suk-kyong for taking action in politics and using that as the only excuse for the reason Dong-woo fell in love with her (Kehee) in the first place | . To top things off, this TV show portrays Kehee’s action as being done in innocence. To me her actions are sassy and debasing to the character of any woman with dignity. Her character later is | Spoiler (Click here to reveal) : |
| lustful for both Oon-hyuk as well as Dong-woo. She knows she is obsessed with Oon-hyuk and yet she goes and toys with Dong-woo. To me, she has her landscape covered. Should she get caught helping the communists by the democratic party, she has Dong-woo to protect her. When she was not chosen over politics and was abandoned by Oon-hyuk, she has Dong-woo to scrape up what is left of her. |
A second example of the flaws of the character of Kehee, is when she tells Suk-kyong that| Spoiler (Click here to reveal) : |
| she “may not know much about politics but that she knows it should not come from under Suk-kyong’s skirt”. | These words are not words of power to top Suk-kyong’s argument but are a direct insult to all women and a direct insult to her own being. By saying these words she is implying that women are born to be inferior to men and not equal to the dirt that they walk on. My examples for the deep flaws of this character of Kehee can go on and on.
Seoul 1945 also demeans democracy. The character of Dong-woo is | Spoiler (Click here to reveal) : |
| not portrayed as being loyal to democracy even though he works under the name of democracy… even though he claims his “loyalty to one woman is as important as his desire to spread democracy”. This is a hysterical exaggeration. If you have seen the show aired so far, his work and decisions in politics are governed by not what is appropriate for democracy but by his lust. He is the major traitor to the Americans in this TV series. He continues to justify his actions either by his past relationships with the communist people or by his own lecherous feelings. |
The entire TV series concentrates on the communists regime and gives little heed to the democrats. It is by no means a work of neutrality. If this TV series was to document historical facts it should do so but not through the deceit of using a love theme to cover an excuse to spread the ideals of communism.
I did not expect this show to be twisted as it has been. As an ordinary viewer of Korean TV series, I thought it was going to be based on plain truths and facts. However, the integrity of this show has revealed itself to be a major flaw. I will not continue to support this show furthermore.
Edit by Theresa: Topic moved to appropriate topic. Spoiler tags added |
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divasma Joined: 12 June 2005 Total posts: 66 Gender: Unknown Karma: 17 Karma yesterday, day before: 17, 17
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Post: #8 (ID: 33736) Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:40 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0) Post subject: |
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Duken - I read and can appreciate your opinion because as someone said - no opinion is right or wrong - it is what it is.
My opinion differs greatly. And in a way, my opinion of this show seems so much more simplistic than the thoughtful ideas others have expressed.
I've enjoyed this show from the beginning. I am surprised that across the many message baords on Korean drama there seems to be very little discussion of this program, perhaps this has to do with the background of the communists and WWII.
I have been watching kdramas for a number of years. I watch them only for the drama. Yes, some things seem to have a basis in fact/history. But that is not why I watch or what I learn from watching. If there is some social custom or cultural or historic event that is used as part of the story and it strikes my interest as driving some part of the plot, then I will seek to learn more about it from more reliable, fact-based resources - and it is not hard to find many of differing perspectives in an academic community.
There have been many plots and sub plots in recent contemporary dramas such as BB or MPC, even YH that made me very curious about laws, behavior and customs. There has been 'behavior' or action in some of these that could drive me nuts - I want to scream - "how could anybody in their right mind do that?" But it is, as people here often say - a drama, a story. Fiction.
I believe that what we see today in N. Korea is nowhere near communism and actually never even got on the road - it is a cult of personality. And I think in some small way, in the very early episodes, we saw that beginning to happen. We are not so far along in Phila.
If KeeHee is either a wicked vixen out for her own selfish ends or a poor peasant unfamiliar with a 'good' life and trying to have control of her life to me it is relevant only if it moves the story of the relationships. We know the history, now I want to see the 'stories' of these fictional characters.
Thank you, however, for another perspective.
IMHO - like '24' or 'Lost', it's just a story.
Diva |
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Post: #9 (ID: 33752) Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:42 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0) Post subject: |
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| Lucas wrote: | | I think that's rediculous. |
Lucas,
Yours and my experiences with regards to this are totally different.
Rememeber that I was in military intelligence during the 80's....
There are things that I can't talk about for another 50 years--if even then.
But I know what I know and what I saw.
Let's just say that communism in the real world isn't anywhere near as hearts and flowers as Marx envisioned it.
As far as backing some brutal regimes in ROK, yes, the US did.
And while I don't condone the actions of those regimes, consider the alternative.
At least the Korean people had the opportunity to change their government if enough of them chose to rise up and change it.
And frankly, when the Phillipine people, thru their elected president, asked us to leave, we did.
No guns, no tanks rolling thru the streets, just a fairly even-handed exit of our troops from a foreign country.
Look at what happened to Hungary and other Slavic countries which tried to throw off the shackles of the Soviet Union.
It was a dark brutal time before the Soviet Union splintered.
Afghanistan would probably still be a battleground for Soviet oppression if the SU hadn't fallen.
ROK had a 15 year headstart on true freedom compared to the satellite Soviet countries.
I remember how excited I was when Kim Dae Jung returned from political exile.
Not that I agreed or disagreed with him.
It was just that I was watching democracy grow stronger in ROK and seeing the growing pains of a country I love.
That would never have happened if the communists controlled ROK.
Knowing all that we know about human nature, that humans have a drive to compete and succeed, that we need to suffer the consequences of bad choices in order to change for the better, do you honestly believe that communism is a benign type of government??
Read Animal Farm again. Great book on the pitfalls which await anyone foolish enough to believe in a benevolent system of government.
Communism as practiced by all three main cultural philosphies (Asian, Hispanic and Russian) has consistently been shown to be MORE corrupt than capitalism ever could be. Communism consistently fails to reward the common man with enough to fill even the most basic of needs. Communism as practiced by all three fails to acknowledge the checks and balances that exist in a truly democratic society.
Only when capitalism enters the mix do we see the goodness that man is capable of being given fertile ground to grow. When humans are allowed to keep their own money, earned with their own hands and sacrifices, the challenges they've overcome to earn that money nurture a giving, warm spirit that, for most people, will result in a compassion far beyond what any government can legislate. And then they have the resources to act on that generous spirit. A gift from one person to another is usually treated with more respect and gratitude than a handout from a government agency. That gift does twice the good that gov't aid does.
The very evils that Marx railed about in his Manifesto find a welcome home in his ideals because he was born into history a little too soon. He didn't have the luxury of seeing how capitalism is in fact a great equalizer. There are less pronounced class struggles in Capitalistic societies because money knows no color or gender.
There will always be injustices in this world because, to put it bluntly, there are always assholes in any culture.
BUT--Communism is a seriously flawed theory, as history has proved.
I chose to turn off Seoul 1945 because I don't need to waste my time watching some idiot's sanitized, idealized version of one of the most evil forms of government ever conceived.
Ok--Off my soap box.
Next! _________________
I can't believe they did it. Those freakin' nerds blew up the BuyMore.
~Big Mike
It's better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness.
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candylover Joined: 05 November 2005 Total posts: 167 Gender: Unknown Karma: 370 Karma yesterday, day before: 370, 370
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Post: #10 (ID: 33756) Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:56 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0) Post subject: |
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Dunken, I think I understand your point of view on SEOUL 1945. Even my parents in their 60s think that way. But one thing I'd like to point out is that what seems to be more appropriate to be comapared to communism is rather capitalism than democracy, and in general democracy could be compared to autocracy rather than communism. I'm not sure whether I could find an example of "democratic communism" systems , but I can say that we already know many examples of "autocratic capitalism" systems including South Korea before 1990s.
Another point of this drama is so called "the collaborators problem" which was important to Koreans but not important to the US after WWII. In general those who collaborated with Japan during the occupation period were not communists; I mean persons like Park Chang-ju, Baron Moon and his daughter, and Dong-Woo's father. They should had been put into trial and punished just after WWII, but they survived by being ardent anti-communists and siding with the US which needed an anti-communist government in South Korea. If you were an Korean, can you believe that persons like Park Chang-ju were not only discharged of what they had done to Koreans during the Japanese occupation period but also succeeded in life after WWII simply because they were anti-communists. Surely justice was not done in South Korea after WWII. Should we expect "neutral" and "unbiased" view of point when we talk about the Nazis and those who fought against the Nazis? I admire "unbiased" point of view, but hate it when it is "contrived" or "mechanical."
We would generally prefer the combination of "capitalism + democracy + non-collaborator" to "communism + autocracy + collaborator", but history is not so black and white. To make things very simple, I suppose we are basically seeing the collision between "capitalism + autocracy + collaborators" and "communism + autocracy + non-collaborators" on SEOUL 1945. Perhaps the reason why many people both Korean and American consider SEOUL 1945 as pro-communist is that communists were fighting against fascist Japan for the independencs of Korea on the drama and in actual history during the period this drama is dealing with. They could not accept that the "bad" commies were doing "good" things as it were during the period. I hate communism, but as a drama watcher I keep trying to go back to the past, and concentrating on what Koreans in the 1940s were thinking about communism rather than what Koreans today think about communism. I think we have to admit the historical fact that the 1940s was a period before communism was proved to be a failure in human history and was a hope of many depressed people in the world.
I don't think this drama is very good; I frequently feel the storyline too contrived, and romance dominates too much. But I think it is good in the sense that it provides us with chances to think about history that is sometimes uncomfortable. |
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ColostomyExplosion
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Lucas Summary Police
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Lucas Summary Police
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Post: #14 (ID: 33766) Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:12 pm Karma this post: (+0 -0) Post subject: |
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What I meant was that the idea that the show "is obviously a biased work to support communism rather than democracy" was rediculous. Equally rediculous is the idea that the show has to be "neutral" or "document facts". It's a tv show and the writers ans producers can do whatver the heck they want! The bottom line is, will people watch it so they can sell advertisements (Hey! That's Capitalism at work! lol).
I wanted to resist getting into this but I am having difficulty.
First off, we cannot compare Communism and Democracy. Communism is an economic system. Democracy is a type of government. They are not one-and-the-other.
However, Cathy since you brought some other things up, I am going to address them.
Why is it that people automatically think if we disagreed with the OP of this thread that we somehow were defending Communism/thought Communism was some great system that could work? Nobody said that, we just think that the show is being mischaracterized. One of the first threads about this show I pointed out that what I liked about it was the fact that we got into peoples specific personal stories and saw how labels like "communist" and "pro-japan/collaborator" etc. made things too black and white and sometimes it could destroy and/or split up families and lovers. It's dangerous to try and distill history into good guy/bad guy because the turth is in the details, not in who "won".
Also, if you want to criticize Communism, just do it on it's own faults. That is not very difficult! Don't try and use Capitalism as the reason that Communism is bad because, wake up folks, Capitalism ain't doing so hot. Stop drinking that Cool Aid if you think so!
| Quote: | | Only when capitalism enters the mix do we see the goodness that man is capable of being given fertile ground to grow. When humans are allowed to keep their own money, earned with their own hands and sacrifices, the challenges they've overcome to earn that money nurture a giving, warm spirit that, for most people, will result in a compassion far beyond what any government can legislate. And then they have the resources to act on that generous spirit. |
It is wonderful that you believe that, but I do not see it. There is a whole lot of greed and not a whole lot of warm, giving spirit these days.
| Quote: | | seeing how capitalism is in fact a great equalizer. There are less pronounced class struggles in Capitalistic societies because money knows no color or gender. |
Judging by the huge disparity in income, the ever increasing gap between the incredibly wealthy and the poor, and the growing number of poor, I fail to see how that is a great equalizer, and it is most definitely NOT a "fact". Also, considering that you, as a woman, make 80 cents to my dollar, as a man, and that the majority of the wealthiest are white men, the "capitalist societies" that exist presently don't fall in line with what you say about color or gender either.
Other "successes" of Capitalism: exporting labor to deregulated countries where you can pay sub-human wages and don't have to provide sanitary/safe working conditions, keeping environmental regulation down so that it doesn't interfere with profit. Gee, I could go on and on...
| Quote: | There will always be injustices in this world because, to put it bluntly, there are always assholes in any culture.
BUT--Communism is a seriously flawed theory, as history has proved. |
I agree there totally, but Capitalism is not your proof.
| Quote: | | I chose to turn off Seoul 1945 because I don't need to waste my time watching some idiot's sanitized, idealized version of one of the most evil forms of government ever conceived. |
It's too bad that you were so quick to judge this show since that's not even close to what it's about and you are missing a great drama. _________________ "A bird calls out, The mountain stillness deepens. An axe rings out, Mountain stillness grows."
www.lucasbrownjazz.com
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ColostomyExplosion
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Post: #16 (ID: 33781) Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:04 am Karma this post: (+0 -0) Post subject: |
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Let me first admit that I only watched a very few episodes on and off on KBS World. But I think I am very comfortable with the theme of this drama. It is not "a biased work to support communism." Can you show me some examples?
When I and Candylover were growing up in Korea in the 70s and the 80s, we went thru "anti-communism" education at school. I therefore have no illusions about communism, even though I later learned that it was a part of fear tactics that S. Korean dictators used to stay in power.
In the mid 90s when S. Korea finally began to move toward a democracy society, a very controversial book came out. It is called Tea Baek Mountains. The writer got in big trouble with S. Korea's national security law, and its movie version was once banned. After 10 years of investigation, S. Korea finally dropped the case against him in 1995. Some right wing activists still fighting to send him to jail.
This book has the similar theme. What is the book about? I did not read it, but I watched the movie version. I think this book portrayed a communist as a human being. It also touched upon S. Korea's brutal treatment with communist sympathizer.
Imagin you are living in a small town in Tae Baek Mountains where communists guerillas, who were left behind after the Korean war, were himding. During the night time, communists guerillas come in and kill those who are siding with S. Korea. During the day time, S. Korean army comes in and kill the communist sympathezers. Isn't it a great tragic story?
I have to go. I will continue later. _________________ Go Red Devils! |
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| Duken
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Post: #17 (ID: 33793) Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:29 am Karma this post: (+5 -0) Post subject: Seoul 1945 |
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I see many of you have expressed your opinions on my opinion about Seoul 1945. I have come to realize that many of you have not seen much of the story, which is the reason why some of my examples are closed up by our webmaster. I can understand that many of you may think it absurd to believe that this work is intended to spread any ideology especially when you only have seen the beginnings of it. When I began watching this show, I did not even know that there are protestors of this series. I was just a regular viewer believing that this film is for the history of the Korean people. In addition, I was following the movie for the interactions of the characters only to later feel that these characters are put there for a purpose that is bigger than it seems. You will have to figure it out on your own. Before I have written my critique of the show, I understand that this is the work of fiction with facts melted in here and there. However, do any of you understand that the media is the most powerful parent we have here on this planet today? Fiction or nonfiction or fiction with nonfiction together can influence the mind and the way we think. Even so, I trust experience more than words. And the words I have expressed are my interpretation based on experiences… which is why I am asking you to extract yourself from the film and really think about it as you watch it sitting on American soil.
You may call these different notions of government any name you want. You may compare and contrast them until the threshold is blurred. In the end, the truth of the matter is that what does not work will not work in the future. This is my meaning when I referred to “documenting historical facts” and expressing in “plain truths and facts”. What has worked, even in its errors, will have opportunity for improvement. These improvements can be strived for under the general public. Again, you may remark on my expression of the “general public”. By this I mean those who have risen and want to rise from the lows of society and had/want to honestly fought/fight for the rights we enjoy today and of tomorrow. Rights we may even take for granted. Laws and regulations are different from what I mean by rights. By rights I am referring to the right to speak out our minds, to write what are in our thoughts, and to work for our own betterment as a result of our own efforts. I know that these rights can be gone anytime because they are made by we humans and so can be taken away by we humans. By the previous sentence, I am simply expressing the idea that things are impermanent and that these rights should be respected for what they have done. To me, that is respecting the very people who worked hard to put them there and to the very people who allowed them to still be there. Without them, you and I will never have these exchanges of opinions. The topic will not even be brought up… let alone discussed.
I understand that the gap between the rich and the poor are widening, but we are given the opportunity or opportunities to get it in balance as much as we can. To search for these opportunities to reach a form of balance even when there may not be total balance is what we can strive for and are able to strive for. Just imagine if that hope and that chance is oppressed. When I write my views on Seoul 1945, I was also expressing the content based on the overall and general nature of we, the people. Do you think it more than due time to work with what we as humans have in this society? When there is a history of success by those who worked their way up to affect good changes there is a high likelihood that it can happen again. My words can be omitted anywhere on this page and the meaning interpreted differently from what I intended. I understand that to state my opinions is to have them differently interpreted by many people of many backgrounds.
Folks, we can write back and forth about this all we want and we may still get nowhere. To those who may have seen my writings on Seoul 1945 as a mere problem: Aye, I understand that showing this series is a form of freedom and that anyone of us can choose to watch it and form any opinion on it as any of us wishes. I was asking you and again asking you to remember that every time we walk on the streets of America, every time we make a choice and make a decision, every time we turn to our neighbors and give an honest form of expression that these things are respected. This is what I mean by a “neutral” view in which I later feel that the characters and the hidden content of Seoul 1945 have deviated from. We must stop and think and express the content based on what has worked in the past and what did not work in the past… for if we are driven to continue sticking our hands in fire we will no longer have any hand to use.
Many of you may take my words lightly and may not bother with anything I have to say; but until you have no rights as a human being in society, until your thoughts must be silence, until you have an inkling of understanding of the magnitude of oppression and bloodshed there can be and has occurred, until you can sense the loss of total hope and of being powerless to create change my words may not mean anything to you. They say “the grass is always greener on the other side”. However, until you sense the other side, the rights you are given in America… even if you see them in the smallest measure… may not give you any feeling of appreciation or satisfaction. |
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